ZAKARIA: Are you worried that at some point the security condition in Iraq will become so difficult that you will have to start considering permanently withdrawing Spanish personnel?
AZNAR: I am very worried about this situation. But we haven’t taken a decision about withdrawing personnel. The Spanish Embassy is still open. And we have our forces deployed there. Our commitment is the same. We entered together and we shall leave jointly.
You have experience dealing with terrorism in Spain. Why has this rebellion grown?
I think anybody who thinks this can be solved in months is wrong. You need specialized forces to fight. If you don’t have sufficient intelligence, and those who are supposed to cooperate don’t cooperate entirely, then you will have problems. But you must realize from the start that there is no rapid solution.
The European Union has offered to contribute no new funds to Iraq. Why won’t France and Russia help, given that they had been arguing for the lifting of sanctions for the past 10 years because they wanted to assist the people of Iraq?
The basic positions that existed before the war continue after the war. That is the way in which you need to see this. People might think things have changed, but nothing has changed.
You have a very strong disagreement with the French and German governments on Iraq.
It’s obvious we disagree. We disagree with the French and the Germans. But it’s not something I enjoy. I think Europeans should understand that the difficulties in Iraq are bad for everyone. Some people seem to enjoy watching someone’s nose being rubbed in the mud the whole day long, but that’s not good. I think in the long term, a bad solution to the Iraqi problem will be worse for Europeans for three reasons at least: for geographical reasons, for strategic reasons, for reasons of power.
Iraq has divided Europe. Do you think this is a division that shows that common European foreign policy is really a myth?
We build the joint mechanisms, but we can’t have different visions and opinions in these situations. I think Iraq is really the first test. There will be others. I don’t believe in a Europe that lives on the sidelines of its relationship with the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. We can’t talk about Europe unless we talk about the Atlantic alliance. And that means that if we don’t keep that very strong, we are going to end up not talking about Europe at all.
Could part of the resistance in some European capitals to help in Iraq be motivated by a fear that any assistance will help re-elect President Bush?
It is possible. President Bush is not very popular in Europe. He is even less popular than [Ronald] Reagan, and that is difficult.
Why do you think Bush is so unpopular?
Well, in general terms, Democrats are more popular in Europe than Republicans. Texan Republicans are even less popular than other Republicans. And when a Texan Republican speaks his mind, then he is even less popular. And then you need to ask yourself: could perhaps there have been some mistakes made?
What kinds of mistakes?
Something that someone misunderstood. Look, President Bush has had to face up to the consequences of the 11th of September. I am sure that Bill Clinton’s response to 9/11 would have been quite similar to Bush’s. In fact, at one point late in his presidency, Clinton was preparing to go to war with Iraq and tried to rally European support. Then he had only two firm allies, Spain and Britain. Some things don’t change.
